This past week, at Web Directions South, designer Andy Clarke announced CSS Eleven (site not yet active), an “international group of visual designers and developers who are committed to helping the W3C’s CSS working group to better deliver the tools that are needed to design tomorrow’s web.”
I am on the CSS Eleven roster, and I’m really anxious to see what the combined efforts of real-world web designers, in addition to the academics and technical folks that make up the CSS Working Group, can bring to future versions of CSS. Also on the bill for CSS Eleven are Cameron Adams, Jina Bolton, Mark Boulton, Dan Cederholm, Anday Clarke, Aaron Gustafson, Jon Hicks, Roger Johansson, Richard Rutter, and Jonathan Snook.
So how is this group different from other groups that could try and acheive the same thing? Not being rude - the list is excellent - but who is to say another group couldn’t create their own list of people with the same objectives?
In other words - why (or what higher power) will the W3C working group listen to these eleven people and not others?
No matter what - this is an awesome group and I hope only good things will come from this. Just interested to find out more….
Truthfully, Nate, I’ve wondered the same thing. Andy is on the CSS Working Group, and I’m assuming he must think he has the “pull” with them to make this group matter. From my personal perspective, it’s like this: if we do this and they don’t care, then we can complain about the W3C with no guilt. We tired, they didn’t listen. It’s on them, not us designers.
Hmmm… and the rest of us web developers who take the time to read, analyse and understand the new specs and help to provide feedback to the W3C and community are what? Chopped liver?
Peter…
You are, as you say, <em>developers</em>. I believe the point of CSS11 is to get <em>designers</em> involved.
OK, let me rephrase: “…the rest of us visual designers and developers.”
Maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way, but this appears a little elitist to me; the movie-star styling, the exclusive nature of the name.
I don’t recall the WaSP making a big deal about their names when they were working on encouraging standards support.
Just in case that comment appears to be bitchy, which it wasn’t intended to be, let me just clarify it a little; the aim is worthy, the execution less so.
To me, this name and poster doesn’t encourage anyone else to get involved
Sounds promising, …but then it could be followed ‘CSS 13’ which won’t be nearly as good as 11…and then ‘CSS 14’ (When Jeff Z is rolled out!)
:D
Seriously, this is a curious mix …and I’m actually wondering how any of you have the time for it when you are such busy people already!!
Jeff, so are you guys going to be transparent with your involvement and ask for community feedback or is this going to be a relatively closed group like WaSP?
If it’s going to be closed, I’d share Peters concerns about this “appears a little elitist to me; the movie-star styling, the exclusive nature of the name.”
Justin and Peter: To be honest, I don’t now what the exact plans are yet. I agreed to be on the team, but Andy hasn’t fully laid out his plans. Hopefully when the site is up we’ll all have a better idea of what exactly we’ll be doing.
“I believe the point of CSS11 is to get designers involved.”
I think the poster actually says that it’s an “international group of visual designers and developers.”
I’d be interested to hear what the group’s going to be producing—and how—as well. Are there tools/resources that you all feel are lacking?
As with Jeff, I’m still a bit hazy on the details, but I believe the process will be the group of 11 evaluating and providing individual feedback and recommendations on the proposed specs. We will be writing CSS based on the proposals and then demonstrate (via comps) how we think they should work, to clear up any ambiguities and provide valuable direction for browser makers implementing them. We will then open this up to comments and perspectives from the world at large. I feedback will be solicited via a wiki, but Andy knows more of the details.
Aren’t all of these conversations about the drafting of new standards public for everyone to consume and respond to?
“We will be writing CSS based on the proposals and then demonstrate (via comps) how we think they should work, to clear up any ambiguities and provide valuable direction for browser makers implementing them.”
Isn’t that part of the WC3’s mission and job?
Um, that would be the W3C. :)
Hey guys…just wanted to let everyone commenting here know that Andy has put up a blog post explaining in more detail what CSS Eleven will do and directly answering some of the questions asked here:
<a href=”http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/malarkey/more/csseleven/” >Check it out.</a>
Typo on the “neded”.
Yes I admit there was a typo on my slide at Web Directions South. Now do you have anything constructive to offer? Or are you just some anonymous twerp?
No, thought not.
Regarding the subject of this post; I think it’s important to mention that this project is not about the personalities involved, nor about the companies that those personalities may happen to work for, or companies that are supporting our initiative. Promotion is good, but a company should not be tied to this initiative.
Hi, Jina:
I definitely didn’t intend to cause any confusion or suggest that Blue Flavor itself was tied to CSS Eleven. Rather, we simply try to highlight community projects our employees are involved with on this blog. I’ve changed the post title to avoid any further confusion.
Jeff -
That’s cool. I just wanted to avoid anyone getting confused by that.
:)